Assisted Telemedicine and the GP Shortage: Managing Infrastructure-Independent IoT Devices

Madeleine:

Hello, dear friends of IoT. Welcome to the IoT Use Case Podcast, your podcast for implementing IoT in practice. I'm Madeleine Mickeleit, your host and a trained mechanical engineer. Today we're heading into healthcare – but not into the hospital. Since this summer, 2026, pharmacies in Germany have been allowed to offer assisted telemedicine. Patients talk to a doctor via video on site, supported by the pharmacy – and it only works, and I mean only works, if the technology behind it runs reliably and securely, every single time someone steps into this box.

The use cases we're discussing today are exciting across industries. So even if you're not from this field, definitely tune in – there are some really interesting aspects in there. It's not just a brand-new, important topic, but also interesting from a business case perspective.

And that's exactly why I've brought in two experts. I'm really looking forward to it. You'll find out who they are in a moment. As always, I'll also be answering your community questions, including ones from practice. You'll find all the information on implementing these and similar projects, as always, at www.iotusecase.com and in the show notes. And with that, I'd say: let's go, off to the podcast studio.

Hello Thorsten, hello Ioana. Thorsten, I'll start with you: How are you today, and where am I reaching you right now?

Thorsten:

Thank you. Fortunately, I'm doing quite well. I don't need to make use of our healthcare system right now. And you'll find me in our showroom in Berlin.

Madeleine:

Very nice. Then greetings to Berlin and to everyone listening, wherever you are right now – in the car, out jogging, whatever you're doing. What does "showroom" mean for you? That's where your boxes are, which we'll be talking about in a moment?

Thorsten:

Yes, exactly. We make digitalization tangible to a certain extent, because among other things we also deliver the right enclosure, if our customers want it. And people can take a look at that here with us. That means we have large telemedicine boxes in which the treatment can take place via telemedicine, like in a small treatment room. But we also have lightweight elements that you simply mount on the wall. And you can come and take a look at all of that here.

Madeleine:

Really cool. I definitely have to drop by. And I'm already really curious to learn more about it, because I have to say, this whole pharmacy and doctor environment isn't exactly my daily business. So it's really exciting to learn more about it today and about how things work in your field. Ioana, a warm hello to you too. Great to have you with us today. How are you, and where am I reaching you right now?

Ioana:

Hello Madeleine, hello Thorsten, I'm very happy to be here. I'm also in Berlin, working from home today. Thorsten, we're not that far apart at all.

Madeleine:

Very nice, cool. You're working from home – I'll give it away up front, you're with Vodafone, we'll get to the introductions in a moment. Where is your office? Also in Berlin?

Ioana:

We have an office in Berlin, but our headquarters is in Düsseldorf, where we have the Vodafone Campus. In general, I'm on the road a lot: Berlin, Munich, Düsseldorf and wherever our customers are.

Madeleine:

Wherever the customers and partners are. Cool. But then let's just get started with a bit about you personally. Thorsten, briefly about you: Since the turn of the year 2026, you've been Managing Director at MEDIVISE. We'll find out exactly what that is in a moment. You're a physician by training with ten years of medical practice, you've worked in digitalization consulting and were also involved early on in building the foundations of what is now the telematics infrastructure. You were also at adesso, and you spent two years at the Association of Statutory Health Insurance Physicians. So you come from this field and you've stayed loyal to it.

Now I'm personally interested in learning a bit more about you. You know the field from the inside: doctors, health insurers, technology, pharmacies and so on. From your perspective, what's new here that many people may not have on their radar yet? What's happening in your market right now?

Thorsten:

It's interesting, actually, that you, as an outsider, call it a field. That sounds so fancy.

Madeleine:

Or the market.

Thorsten:

Exactly. Ultimately, we are clearly facing – and it's developing more and more – huge challenges in providing care for our society in Germany. That's because we're seeing demographic change not only in society, but also on the side of the resources providing care, meaning doctors and skilled medical staff. This means there are fewer and fewer points of contact, including for general practitioner care, and that the distances I have to accept as a patient to get to a doctor are getting longer.

And we're addressing that. There is definitely also a political will to have alternatives to simply rushing to the hospital or to a GP when I have an acute need. There are many people around us who no longer have a relationship with a GP, and we take them by the hand, among others. That means we're present at a wide variety of locations where people from all walks of life, with different requirements or different needs, can make use of telemedicine services.

And this is increasingly finding its way into the healthcare market. At the end of the day, though, it's still something very new for everyone involved – for patients, for location operators and for the doctors providing the services, who haven't been able to gain much experience with telemedicine in the past.

Madeleine:

Okay, that's also really interesting, what you're saying. I know that pattern personally from industry, too. Skilled workers are becoming scarce. All processes are being designed so that less specialized staff can carry them out. And technology is often at the center of it. I'm curious to see how you're implementing this together. So it's an exciting topic, and great that you're with us today.

Ioana, briefly about you. You're Managing Director of Vodafone IoT Germany and, as Head of Sales, you're primarily responsible for the DACH region. You've been with Vodafone since 2009 and you studied – now I have to be careful – political science and sociology in Aachen? Is that right?

Ioana:

That's correct.

Madeleine:

So actually from outside the industry, which is also interesting. And today, with your platform, you make sure that your customers can connect their devices in, I believe, more than 180 countries now, all from a single source. Vodafone is big, and I'm glad you're with us today.

Ioana:

Thank you, Madeleine, and thank you for the invitation. And the first special thing is probably that I don't have a technical background. I studied political science and sociology, but I think that actually has advantages for what I'm doing now. Because with IoT cases, I naturally also look at the impact they have on society. And today's case, which we'll be discussing, fits that very, very well – as does what it can change for organizations.

I've been with the company since 2009 and stayed loyal to it, and I came into contact with IoT right at the start. At the end of the 2000s, a department was founded here. Back then it was still called M2M, and that was the beginning of the IoT platform. And over the years it has become a success story. Today we're an independent company operating globally, and we connect more than 240 million devices on our platform.

Madeleine:

Amazing. That's a huge number, and all the better to zoom in on one or more devices today and see how it works in practice. Really cool, and great that you're taking the time to be with us today.

Thorsten, the follow-up question, to understand your market a bit better. You said it's about treatment in this box that you supply. Maybe briefly about MEDIVISE. You offer this MEDIVISE telemedicine box. I picture it as a kind of doctor's booth on site – I hope I can put it that way – plus the associated platform, where you can actually walk in as a patient and get treated. But you do even more than that. Could you describe that a bit? What exactly do you do, and who are your customers today?

Thorsten:

It's actually the case that there's a need in a wide variety of places to create telemedical access to medical resources. We have the classic setting in which pharmacies are now increasingly transforming – away from being a place that dispenses medication towards becoming a holistic healthcare provider, which we think is a very, very good idea. And that's where you find MEDIVISE infrastructure, for example.

But not only there – also where patients end up in the healthcare system in the wrong place; this is called misallocation. That means that, due to the lack of a connection to a GP, for example, people with an acute need and a relatively minor illness come rushing into the inpatient sector. And then they're in inpatient care, where they don't belong at all. So neither the patient is happy being treated by the inpatient unit for his man flu, nor is the hospital.

That means these patients simply belong in outpatient care, so that the whole thing can run efficiently and sensibly. And that's where our video booth in an emergency department comes in, and the patients who qualify for it are treated immediately by outpatient doctors via the MEDIVISE video resource, and are then immediately in the part of the care system where they belong with their pattern of illness.

And that's what we do. That means we record the patient data and essentially take the step from the need the patient brings with them – to talk to a doctor, to get information, to get a diagnosis, to get medication – to a genuine medical need, by validating this with the patients. That means they're first medically assessed to find out which care option is right for these patients. That's medical software, approved medical devices that reliably tell us: This patient belongs in outpatient care, doesn't need to be seen urgently, doesn't need to see an emergency doctor and can also be treated via video consultation.

And this allocation happens on our platform, alongside the fact that we naturally manage all the administrative data. And then, through our resource, we offer these patients the appropriate medical service. These are doctors – GPs, specialists – who can be connected via our platform and who make their appointments available to us. And they then treat these patients. These are office-based physicians. That means they're the normal statutory health insurance physicians, who bill the health insurers quite normally via the Association of Statutory Health Insurance Physicians.

Madeleine:

What actually happens in this box, and where is it located? Let me put it the way I'd understand it: If I really have a need and say, okay, for this I'd probably have to go to my GP – or it might also be the case that I'm looking for a point of contact somewhere that wouldn't really be suitable for my case – I would go to one of these boxes. It's located in a pharmacy, for example, or maybe somewhere else, and then I connect via video, so to speak, and get advice there. Is that right? What exactly happens in this box?

Thorsten:

The box is essentially the all-round, worry-free package for this care pathway. That means, in order to use video medicine, you of course need an appropriate private space and, if need be, staff to assist with the whole thing. That's not yet an established procedure everywhere, because it's something extremely new. And then, if in doubt, it's not yet the case that the doctors know the medical technology that could be installed, or vice versa. That means these are care ecosystems that are only just emerging.

In principle, though, you could also carry out a physical examination in our box, as far as it can be automated, on a self-service basis. And exactly these values, the diagnostics that are collected, can be made available immediately to the doctor on the other side. But basically it works like this: When you enter our box, you're essentially stepping into – you already said it quite rightly – a small treatment room, the smallest treatment room in the world, so to speak, if you like.

Madeleine:

That's a good slogan.

Thorsten:

It's very much designed for patients to feel comfortable, because we also know from studies that creating the right environment for telemedicine is relevant to patient outcomes. And there, even as an older person, you can really build a proper – let's call it – relationship with the doctor in the doctor-patient conversation, even if it's only a brief one.

And what we then do is, when the patient takes a seat in our booth, we provide them with the video consultation with the doctor they've booked an appointment with. It's all very intuitive. So you come in. Even opening the door works with the electronic health card, so as an older person I don't suddenly have to learn some unfamiliar procedure. So, as a patient, I use the card slot to move through the different process steps, so to speak. And then it's very intuitive: a big green button, MEDIVISE green, that says "Let's go", and then off you go.

Madeleine:

Okay, exciting. That's really new, isn't it? I've never heard of it, and I find the case really exciting. I recently had a call with my doctor – it was already an exception that we did a video consultation at all. But this would be especially for all the people who do it on site in a box like this. And that's very new, isn't it? Since when has this existed?

Thorsten:

Exactly. MEDIVISE has existed conceptually for about five years. MEDIVISE has been operating as a company for a good two and a half years. The first market entry was in the middle of last year. It's new for us in Germany. Of course, there are already established systems in other European countries. But we can't always compare ourselves with them one to one. If we look at the Scandinavian countries, there's now a second or third generation of people who have only ever known a fully digital healthcare system. So they deal with these digital solutions, including in care, in a completely different way than we do in Germany.

Madeleine:

Yes, absolutely. We'll be talking mainly about the connectivity that Vodafone IoT provides here in a moment. And that's mainly about the use case, which is probably similar for many manufacturers, let's say. But first I'd like to talk briefly about the pharmacy's business case, to understand: Who actually pays for what in the end, and how does a business case like this pay off?

Thorsten:

Exactly, that actually varies, depending on who ultimately operates the MEDIVISE infrastructure, meaning who becomes our customer. In the pharmacy case, it's been relatively simple since the middle of this year, because pharmacies now have very specific billing codes for patients with statutory health insurance, which they're also allowed to bill to the health insurers. That means they get it as a coded service, can refinance it and receive a corresponding billing item for the patient they've cared for, which they can then put straight into their books one to one.

It's different with other types of customers. With hospitals, for example, as I said, it's somewhat more complex. That's actually because the monetary effects don't always translate one to one into a revenue model. That's just the way it is in our healthcare system, which is, of course, overregulated here and there to some extent. It's actually about limiting the losses a hospital incurs to some extent. If they treat me for man flu, the hospital no longer breaks even. It's actually a loss-making case for the hospital.

And then I actually have a win-win situation. As a patient, I'm treated immediately on site, right where I turn up. The doctors who treat these patients on an outpatient basis get these patients for treatment where they belong. So these are corresponding insurance claims that these doctors can submit. And the hospital incurs somewhat less of a loss. And then I've actually created a situation in which I'm partly addressing the fact that patient navigation today doesn't yet work as satisfactorily as one would actually like.

Madeleine:

Okay, but that also means your box isn't only located in pharmacies, where there may already be some infrastructure, but also in various other places. So it's not just the pharmacy.

Thorsten:

No, exactly. We're located in various places. Now it gets interesting, because now we come to connectivity. Thanks to our partnership with Vodafone, we're independent of infrastructure. That's because all we need on site is power. And we can ensure everything else through the connectivity we have together with Vodafone. And that's why we're also located in areas with weak infrastructure.

That's exactly where medical care needs to be maintained, even if it's only via telemedicine. But nevertheless, we can also be located in the villages where the last Edeka supermarket has closed, the last doctor's practice has closed, maybe there's still a pharmacy, but the medication actually tends to come from the neighboring town. And those are exactly the kinds of locations where you'll find us.

Madeleine:

Exciting, okay. Ioana, a question for you: What does a project like this mean for you at Vodafone?

Ioana:

These are exactly the projects we want to do. I'm a fan of this case, because you actually manage to bring care closer to patients, to people. And that will definitely have a positive impact on society. We've already talked about the shortage of skilled workers. We know that doctors are lacking in rural areas. And at the same time, we're all getting older, which is a very good thing. And we can only manage this interplay together. And that doesn't just work through more doctors, but also through more digitalization.

And Thorsten, in my view, what you're doing is exactly the right thing. And I think it's also important for Germany as a business location to have digitalization projects like this. We have strong mid-sized companies in Germany, and in principle we also have good care where it's available. And bringing these topics together will strengthen our location – and above all, it scales.

Madeleine:

Let's move on to implementation, meaning how the two of you, or rather your companies, are working together here. If I've understood correctly, your IoT use case is ultimately assisted telemedicine. You have remote maintenance in there to some extent, but you also have to monitor these boxes. And you also said part of it is bureaucracy, meaning digital documentation and billing. You mentioned the health insurers. So it's a holistic project.

Let's start with connectivity, where you said you're independent or need to be independent. Could you describe a bit what your technical challenge was here, where you say this really has to be in place to connect a box like this? And what happens in the worst case if a box does go offline, meaning the connection drops?

Thorsten:

The idea of working together actually came about secondarily, based on customer requirements. That means the founding team definitely started out with a purely wired variant. We also know that the healthcare system requires this everywhere. If I want to communicate with the telematics infrastructure – meaning reading electronic health cards and the like – then I have completely different requirements for authentication and identification processes and all that. So initially, the start was actually planned with a copper line, let's say.

The fact is, though, that we have several process steps that are crying out for us to build the whole thing on mobile connectivity. One is: We have many customer situations – I think I casually called it the back of beyond earlier – where we're actually in a remote corner, where it would be extremely costly to bring in any other kind of connectivity. There we simply have a plug-and-play system and can just set up our infrastructure. Full stop. I think we're also quite unique in the provider market in being able to do that.

The other thing is, as you said, that we of course need access to our machinery. That means we monitor what's happening there, because that naturally also feeds into our billing models. The administrative processes and all that naturally have to take place in a highly secure environment, which we've of course also ensured via the Vodafone network. That's how we started.

And one thing is – I think you mentioned a bit where I come from. I also remember the M2M days, when it all started.

Madeleine:

Back then it was still called –

Thorsten:

And then there was also a phase when it was called IoT, then there was also the IoMT, meaning the Medical Things, and we've gone through all those special variants. And in that context, there were already positive experiences with Vodafone, and then a few selection criteria that were relevant for us, again in the interest of the matter. And one thing that's strong is the ability to individually control what each card does. That's what our technical team sees.

We now also use the cards for commissioning. So even if a customer insists on having the whole thing wired, we connect accordingly. When we deliver a tablet, we connect it to the customer's on-site Wi-Fi for them, without the customer having to do anything. All of these are use cases that were added later on.

And today we're only at the very beginning of also transmitting medical data and linking up with medical technology. As I said, these are actually still special variants rather than the standard – measuring ECG, blood pressure, pulse, oxygen saturation and all these things – precisely because the physician on the other side doesn't yet know what to do with it. But even there we can already see: We also have small lab solutions – for example, when a lab-on-a-table scenario is connected, I can quickly carry out one or two blood tests on site on a self-service basis. And that's where we see the tremendous advantages of being on the GSM network.

Ioana:

Exactly. We always come into play when a customer's business model depends on reliable connectivity. And reliable also means having only one SIM card in use, because we all know that connectivity is quickly bought. Getting access to data connections isn't a problem.

Where it gets interesting, though, is when the whole thing has to be managed, as Thorsten also said: having an overview, being able to test the connection, making sure the connection is actually there, and also making sure the data is transmitted cleanly. With MEDIVISE, we're talking about a case where the box ultimately doesn't move. It's installed once, which means we can test it very well, and then we know what the situation is at the location.

But our strength naturally also comes from the mobile sector. That means connecting devices that are constantly on the move. And there are already some very exciting use cases in medicine, for example connecting pacemakers. That's also a topic where we have to make sure the connectivity is there. And of course we take our role very seriously, including in critical infrastructure. And so some really, really exciting cases are developing in this area right now. Things are happening.

Madeleine:

There are also extremely exciting cases in fleet management, for example, or in many other use cases, where you also have numerous customers, and where the main challenge doesn't actually lie in the connectivity itself. As you say, it's quickly bought. There are lots of providers out there. But this management, as you just explained, is, I think, the key.

Could you elaborate on that a bit more – what's the whole range of things involved in managed access here? What do you need to keep in mind? Why is connectivity so crucial here in order to prepare it properly for scaling?

Ioana:

In principle, connectivity is important for getting to the data. Now, relating it to this case: Thorsten, you said there are definitely cases where the pharmacist insists on it still being connected via copper line. But we also see cases out there where it's almost impossible to integrate into the hospital network, for example if you operate your devices there.

And in the future, the data that's extracted from this – meaning having this industrial data, so to speak, and making the know-how available – will also bridge the gap towards AIoT. That naturally requires real-time data. And we're the ones who provide it. Via the platform, simply and, above all, at scale – and at scale internationally, too.

Maybe one more sentence on that. In Europe we are – Thorsten may disagree with me, because the regulatory requirements are very high – but in terms of the connectivity part, in Europe we're still relatively blessed. There's legislation that covers many countries, and it's complied with. But we also have customers who don't only operate in Europe, but in other countries too. And there are definitely challenges there, and different regulatory requirements for a SIM card that connects to the network there. Let's say Turkey, for example, or the UAE, KSA, just to name a few examples.

And we want to keep that complexity out. We make sure that our SIM card is allowed to operate there, and so the customer has nothing to do with it at all. That means if Thorsten decides tomorrow to expand his box into a country where this is complicated, he wouldn't even notice, because we take care of it in the background.

Thorsten:

That was actually also one of the selection arguments on our side. Of course, we're starting with the main check in German-speaking healthcare – that's the case, because we're now fortunately also allowed to bring the first installations to Austria – but the other countries just mentioned can also become interesting very quickly. And then, alongside the technical solution you bring, it's also important to have strong, reliable partners.

Something we haven't addressed technically yet: One selection criterion on our side is this – I hope I'm saying it correctly, Ioana – white labeling of the SIM card. That means it actually just goes online on site and can then really choose the best network. So that we can always reliably use whatever is best available on site, regardless of what can or can't be received there at the time. That was also an important point for us.

And I'll pick up again on what you said earlier, Ioana, about the infrastructures you can't get into. That's definitely true. In the clinic case, we have clinics that sometimes belong to critical infrastructure, meaning they have to meet these KRITIS criteria. We're on the safe side there, but some in-house IT departments may see it somewhat more strictly than the legislator actually does. And before we start having wild discussions there, we simply operate proprietarily on our own, and that's that. That means we have no connection to the in-house network, don't need one either, and simply have a secure, reliable infrastructure on our side and can get our installation up and running as quickly as possible.

Ioana:

Exactly, that way you make sure that not every integration turns into a small IT project.

Thorsten:

Exactly.

Ioana:

But I'd like to come back to the point about the different networks. We're currently present in more than 180 countries, but at the same time we have access to more than 750 networks. That means in every country we have more than one mobile network operator that our global SIM card can access. That makes things interesting in terms of network coverage, because every operator also has white spots. But by bringing the operators together, we naturally minimize those massively. And looking to the future, the next technology is now being integrated: satellite. That will of course give it another boost, and that also makes the solution exciting.

Madeleine:

Interesting. So that's the new big thing you're now moving into, additionally offering customers the option of ensuring connectivity via satellite.

Ioana:

Exactly, but ideally without the customer noticing. Our goal is to provide connectivity and availability, and which network it dials into in the background is secondary. And again with regard to Europe: If you have access to several network providers, you have very, very good network coverage, it has to be said. Compared to the USA or Australia, where you have very large areas with simply nothing there, satellite will of course play a completely different role. But our ambition is to integrate this technology just the same and give the customer the best possible result.

Madeleine:

And since you just brought it up – Ioana, you mentioned the buzzword AIoT. That's ultimately the Artificial Intelligence of Things, meaning IoT plus AI. It would be really interesting here if you think it through a bit further. This box could build on that in the future – I don't know whether that's a case – for example, explaining causes, maybe recommending measures, maybe also reporting unusual SIM usage. I don't know exactly what data is being transmitted. But maybe you could think in that direction, or even predict utilization scenarios.

There are so many use cases going through my head right now that could also become really exciting for you in this case, right? How do you see the topic? What's required from the technology? Ioana, how do you see the topic of AIoT? Have you discussed it yet?

Ioana:

Of course. And it's not just a trend – it's already reality and definitely the future. When we talk about Physical AI, when the intelligence actually sits on the end device and this device moves and can make decisions on its own, it's fundamentally important that access to the data is always available. That means connectivity will no longer be a nice-to-have, but mandatory. Without it, it most likely won't work. And of course we also see very big opportunities there for us in the IoT space.

Madeleine:

Cool. Thorsten, how do you see it? Have you thought about it yet, or is it still too far off for you?

Thorsten:

For us in healthcare, it's actually two different things. That's because, on the one hand, there can of course be the use of AI on the medical content side. So what you mentioned as an example – an AI supporting a medical decision-making or diagnostic process – is of course something different from what we see in terms of AI for the IoT platform, so to speak. In the long run, we need both.

In the context of medical treatment, it's somewhat more complex, because we're right in the middle of medical device regulation, with all the associated – and rightly associated – hurdles that have to be overcome. And on the other hand, we have exactly the kind of benefits that we can then map via the platform. From our perspective, that's mainly prediction.

We have the challenge that we don't just have to open the door for patients – on the other side, a medical resource also has to be available. That's one example, as trivial as it sounds, of a topic where we need to make the right predictions. The moment I involve a human resource, it becomes relatively expensive. And the better I can predict that, the more precisely I can of course plan and the more efficiently I operate.

Madeleine:

Very exciting. Maybe we can do an update in a few years – who knows where the whole thing will go. I'll definitely keep following it. If you're listening and thinking, I actually have a similar case, maybe with a different device, or you're specifically interested in this product, the telemedicine box: I'd put your contact details in the show notes, if that's okay. Just so people can reach out. I hope that's alright with you. LinkedIn is a good way, isn't it?

Ioana:

Definitely.

Madeleine:

Very good, then I'll do that right away. I believe you're also exhibiting at the next trade fair. If you'd like to have a look on site: You're exhibiting at MEDICA, right? That's coming up soon, isn't it? Where can people find you there?

Ioana:

The Vodafone booth is in Hall 17, and we'll be there together. So feel free to stop by in November at MEDICA in Düsseldorf.

Thorsten:

It's an honor for us to be exhibiting there. And we're actually showing one of our boxes as a showcase, so people can really get a feel for the whole thing and try out what it's like.

Ioana:

What I also find exciting about trade fairs like this is that you can touch something. As Vodafone IoT, we're always the invisible component in every solution. So it's all the more important to actually show what's possible with it. Of course, you need the good business idea and the implementation. But connectivity is also an important layer. That's why we're doing this together.

Madeleine:

A fantastic project, and I think it's a great choice to show it on site like this. If you can't be there, reach out to Thorsten and Ioana directly, or come and join our user circle. We meet once a month and exchange ideas about solutions like these and others. Thorsten, I don't know if you or someone from your team would like to join at some point – you're warmly invited to the exchange. It's always really interesting, because the companies all have very similar challenges. Not just in this medical vertical, but in completely different ones too – but the use case behind it, including on the connectivity side, is always very similar. So a warm invitation at this point. I'll put it in the show notes for you.

To wrap up, I wanted to come back to the business case and ask one final question: Who actually pays for what, and who actually holds this contract, or rather this SIM management? Is that you, or does the pharmacy do it, or how does it work? Could you explain again a bit how the business case works?

Thorsten:

Very simple: We're the contractual partner, which means we hold all the installed IoT cards and manage them in full. And we can charge that to the customer as a service, as an extended service, wherever it can be monetized. It's as simple as you can imagine. In the end, and I say this with a wink, relative to our overall product price it's something that's of course easily affordable. The service that comes with it, or the benefit that comes with it, is many times greater for us – having the options, having the flexibility. And that quickly turns it into the right business case for us.

Madeleine:

Before we finish, do you have anything you can or would like to share with our listeners? Learnings from the project or from other projects? Things where you'd say: We'd do that again straight away, we'd never do that again? Or were there assumptions you made that turned out to be wrong in hindsight? Any learnings where you'd say: Hey folks, watch out for this?

Ioana:

Regarding the project with MEDIVISE: We'd do it exactly the same way again. It's wonderful to work with partners who have a vision and also have clear implementation steps. What we notice again and again, including with other customers or potential customers, is that connectivity is often seen like this: I need it now, I'll sort it out somehow, whether it's via cable; here I have one SIM card, over there I have another SIM card.

And that works as long as the company is small. But as soon as we get to scaling, an incredible amount of complexity arises when the customer has 10,000, 20,000, hundreds of thousands of devices out there and tries to harmonize what they've built. It's always easy to look ahead and say: Okay, now we're starting, and from now on this is the platform. But harmonizing the legacy, what has already been built, very often comes with very high costs.

So my learning from the industry is: If the vision is there, and connectivity is part of it, then do it right from the start. Get a partner at your side who provides this platform and also supports you in your growth plans, so that you don't have to focus on these topics. That's my main takeaway – and Thorsten does that to perfection.

Thorsten:

Thank you very much. I can only return the compliment just as positively. We wouldn't want to do anything differently on our side either. We were actually taken by the hand extremely well, including our technical team regarding onboarding onto the solution and so on. It all worked really, really well. The contracting worked the way we imagined it would. You also have to agree on suitable tariff options and the like. And that's exactly where we received sound advice, which in my view went quite quickly.

And I don't think it's the norm at all that we, as such a small start-up, are working with the big Vodafone and still doing so on an equal footing. I think that's another attribute that may not be expressible in facts and figures, but simply comes down, to some extent, to the chemistry. But in my view, it's also an important attribute that defines the collaboration.

Ioana:

Thank you, Thorsten. I just realized that I haven't mentioned who our customers are or who we work with. And it's actually the case that we place great value on start-ups, because what's emerging here right now is simply the future. And it's always digital. But of course we also work with German mid-sized companies, right up to the large OEMs. The 240 million connections naturally also come from the customers who are already scaling. But I find it incredibly valuable to get these insights and to be part of this development – and always happy to have more of it. Germany needs it, too.

Madeleine:

An exciting project, and I'm really curious to see how the whole thing develops. It's not only relevant for society, but – Thorsten, as you said at the beginning – simply a relevant project that not only Germany, but perhaps other countries too, will need. So all that's left for me at the end is to say thank you to you both. Thank you for being on the podcast and telling us about it. I think we had a really nice interplay, talking very concretely about the market: What are the challenges, what drives your customers and the stakeholders who play a role – but also, how does the whole thing work? What kind of infrastructure does it take?

We talked about the challenges, but also about the business case, which I found really exciting. Thank you for your openness. With that, I'll hand the last word over to you and close today's session. The closing words are yours.

Thorsten:

Then I'll go first, Ioana, so that you have the very last word. Very, very gladly. It was really exciting, and thank you very much for letting me be a guest and present this. Of course, as the managing director of a start-up, it's always fun to talk about your own work. But as a final thought: We still have a lot of shaping ahead of us. Together with all stakeholders in healthcare, we simply have to tackle one circumstance or another. And I believe that if we're lying in the water a little ahead of the wave, as a good surfer does, then we're doing everything right at this point, and we'll be glad to shape further aspects of healthcare together.

Ioana:

Thank you very much from my side as well. Thorsten, we're happy to be part of it.

Madeleine:

Thank you both, and have a great rest of the week. Take care, ciao, bye.

Ioana:

Thank you very much, see you soon.